A positive spin

Another great comment to the post I made earlier today.

I to have long time clients like he is describing and am very grateful for them.

He is extremely fortunate to have the respect of the community he lives in.

And yes humility is the key to many, many things. Well put. Thanks.

See below.



"Throughout history the land surveyor in many communities was one of the most respected individuals in town. I can only relay my experience:

I am in a small town that occupies a valley that actually holds 2 small towns within it. My father and myself have been practicing here for the last 40 years. Everyone in town knows us and most value and seek our opinion on land issues. We are not always busy. However we always make time to "babysit our clients". The perceived value in a survey to a client is not in the presentation of the plat or monuments. It is found when you take care of problems that the title company finds. Forewarn them of possible issues if they proceed with a bad plan. Handle the title company and or attorneys for them. Do the paperwork for them.

It is always the little things. Clients can't read plats (for the most part); and don't know why the "bars are set there". So it is the overall service experience that you give them that garners respect and recommendations.

Sometimes clients get turned off by presentation. If you come driving up in a pretty truck with brand new equipment, do the job and hand them a bill; it don't matter if the invoice was for a $1. The perception is that they are paying for your pretty stuff. And they resent it. Humility is also key. If you have to tell people you are smart; they perceive you to be ignorant and insecure.

just some thoughts... "

Why are we surveyors???

Why are we surveyors? I often ask myself that question.

As a business owner I carry a significantly higher amount of liability than the big company project guy or a government employee.

While there are plenty of positive reasons to be a surveyor below are a few on the negative side.

*Surveyors are often looked down upon by other professionals such as engineers.

*We are the first ones to have the finger pointed at when something has gone wrong on a job site and have trouble defending ourselves because no one understands what we do.

*We are generally expected to be clients babysitters.

*Some surveyors put themselves in a position of extreme liability without even knowing it.

*Our services are rarely appreciated.

*Our peers under value themselves therefore driving fees into the ground.

*Big companies rent a crew out for next to nothing and make up the cash flow on engineering.

*Because of the stuff listed above, in order to survive we are unable to charge what we are worth.

*Unfortunately this list goes on and on and all of it is our fault.

Let’s face it; our product is one of the most non-desired out any service based business out there.

When was the last time you were at a party and you over heard someone saying how they just got a great deal on a land survey, or hey I just got some extra money, I am going to get a land survey, screw the flat screen or how many of you told yourself when you were kids “wow when I grow up I want to be a land surveyor”?

I have learned throughout the years that the way to make money is to concentrate on quality and service. Focusing on money causes one to lose money.

I am a firm believer that as a business man I must give a person more value for their dollar than what they paid.

Now here comes the big question: How in the bloody hell do I do that when the client is actually resentful of the idea of having to retain me?

I guess what I am trying to say is, that we are in a business that if anyone could live without it, they would drop us like a hot rock.

Now I will tell you why I am a land surveyor.

I am a land surveyor because I walked out of school and went to work as a chainman. I did that for about a year then moved up to the T2 and the distance meter. I was a crew chief by 23. I have always been a little ahead of the game in that I watched all of my friends and acquaintances struggling with bad jobs and never make any money. Frankly I hated the idea of living like them and liked that I always did better.

In hindsight I do wish that when I was younger I had tried the struggle of my friends and experienced different things.  I could have always come back.

Now here I am 26 years later, I own my company and I have gone as high as I can go in this profession. There is nothing else unless I go into the politics of it and that will never happen. Maybe academics??

I have started and been involved in several companies outside of surveying, some have done well, others have tanked. I am in the process of putting together 2 more companies as you read this.

I have been saying it for years and I will say it again. Land surveying is a great job if you are worker bee but a lousy business.

All that said, while I am in this particular business I intend to work my ass off to help make things better for the independent surveyor, the small business owner. You are the ones that have to eat the most shit and it is time to stop.

I will be discussing this matter in detail starting this week.

Research

I had a little free time the other morning between meetings and did this.

Most of you know this stuff but some of the youngsters and people in other counties may not.

Another awesome comment

Earlier in the week I made a post about educating the youngsters is the real way to change things.

The person that made the comment below takes it to the next level.

Thank you so much. This is what I am talking about regarding all of us getting on board with the common ground of surveying and accountability. It all starts with people saying these kinds of things. Truly Awesome!!

He starts out by referring to the Idaho code of ethics I posted yesterday.

See below.

"Personally I like it. APLS should adopt something like this in a timely manner. Then we can discuss adding it to the Minimum Standards.

It has been my observation. That many of our fellow registrants; whom are perceived as doing sub-par work. Are doing so because they lack support. Who do they turn to when they have a question? Are they intimidated by their peers?

Well here is a shocker.. They fail because we allow them to. We know who they are and yet we allow the behavior. BTR complaints won't do it. Education will. I don't know why there is a bunch of poaching going on in the valley. However whom ever is doing this needs to realize that are not helping. They are deepening the divide. We have got to start educating our profession. AND YES, some people have to be told to. Education is the key... and it is the only answer no one wants to hear... "

Politics

First a brilliant post from earlier today. Thank you anonymous. You are one awesome person!! I am going to print this and leave it next to my monitor.


"We need to treat our fellow Land Surveyors as peers and not competition. When that paradigm shift happens the communication follows. This is not about pride, honor, riches, or faith, individually. It is about professionalism. One bad example taints us all. We must rise to the occasion; or we will surely fail."



Now this:

 I am going to tip my hat to all of you guys that are involved in the politics of Arizona Land Surveying.

On top of trying to survive in the current economic condition you are out there working for us (hopefully). In reality being slow does give one more time for such things.

I am having a hard time deciding if you are gluttons for punishment or have a strong stomach. I personally think glutton.

If you genuinely want to improve things for us then I have respect for you.

If you have a partisan personal agenda you can shove that up your ass.

As stated earlier today this will be the last political post and the post below this will be the last super controversial post.

I love some controversy as it grabs viewers, but screw that.  

This stuff is way too heavy for me in that I stopped thinking on a technical level years ago and now I only think on a business level.

I have learned a lot about the political structure in the last few months and I am of the opinion that there are more like minded than opposed minded in our profession. At least the eternal optimist keeps me thinking that.

From here on I am only going to write about business and surveying and most aspects involved in both. While I do have strong opinions and ideas politics are out.

I hope you will still follow as I am going to be doing a lot of fun stuff. More video, interviews, stories etc.

I also want to encourage all of you to participate, share your opinions and stories. We all have the common ground of surveying and some of us share the business ground. So let’s encourage that common ground and see if we can create some unity and good examples for all.

I will leave this post with the following, below is the Code of Ethics for the Idaho Society of Professional Land Surveyors. This is written by surveyors for surveyors. (FYI only costs $100 a year to belong).

Preamble: The surveyor is to uphold the honor and dignity of the profession and in keeping with high standards of ethical conduct:

• Will be honest and impartial and serve with devotion his employer, clients, and the public.
• Will strive to increase the competence and prestige of the surveying profession.

Will use his knowledge and skill for the advancement of human welfare.

The Surveyor shall act for each client or employer as a faithful agent or trustee. The Surveyor will not accept remuneration other than his agreed charges for services rendered for his clients. The Surveyor will not pay commissions in negotiating for surveying work, nor solicit work on a contingency basis. The Surveyor will not attempt to supplant another surveyor after definite steps have been taken towards his employment. The Surveyor will not compete unfairly with another surveyor by taking advantage of a salaried position. The Surveyor will not advertise or make public statements in a self-laudatory manner. The Surveyor will not attempt to injure the reputation, prospects or business of another surveyor. The Surveyor will not engage in the review of the work of another surveyor for the same client, except with knowledge of said surveyor, unless such services have been terminated. The Surveyor will not associate in the conduct of surveying with others who do not conform to the basic principles of this code. The Surveyor will not engage in any practice which will tend to bring discredit or dishonor to the surveying profession.

Total Lack of Communication

I had to let this one sit for a few days before I wrote about it due to my complete disillusionment and anger.

All last week I have watched everyone go back and forth about communication which I think is the key to common ground. Keep it up.

I love what Mr. Epperson said about us being unable to force anyone to do anything. Perfectly put, none of us can.

So here it is. I got a frantic call from a friend of mine that is a very competent and ethical surveyor informing me that he has been turned into the board by another surveyor. I take this as no surprise as there seems to be witch hunt on and proceed to listen. The more he gets into the story the more I realize what sad state things are in amongst surveyors.

What occurred is my friend surveyed a piece of property for a long time client that wants to get an easement released and join it to his property. My friend did the preliminary boundary work and set 2 corners in a preempt to the assemblage. It turns out that there is question to some underlying rights of the easements and he advised his client to consult an attorney for a proper interpretation and ask advice on how to proceed. (Note: The client has been working this out with his attorney). This particular project has been sitting dormant for 120 days +/- with my friend in contact weekly with his client.

Well, along comes another surveyor who did not survey this property but merely saw my friend’s caps, looked it up and realized nothing has been filed.

This particular surveyor never called my friend and is in the process of turning him with a long list of allegations and then proceeded to my friend’s client’s house and in person showed him the letter that he will be sending to the board.

Needless to say my friend’s client was incredibly off put by this action and immediately informed my friend what is happening.

Now it is my opinion that said particular surveyor has placed himself in an extremely liable situation in that he has defamed my friend to his client and is therefore placing a shadow of doubt in the clients head and has possibly harmed future business deals.

This goes back to the question of who defines completion of a project.

If this particular surveyor had bothered to pick up a phone and find out what is happening it would have saved a whole bunch of time, avoided turmoil and avoided the good tax payer cost to have the already overloaded board review.

Now I am going to tell you what I would do in this case if I was the defendant.

1)      Upon receipt of the letter from the board I would immediately have my Warlord of an attorney write a letter to the board in my defense.

2)      Have my Warlord of an attorney compose a letter to this particular surveyor demanding a letter of retraction to the board and a letter of apology to my client and give them 10 working days in which to comply.

3)      If the particular surveyor declines to do so I would immediately have my Warlord of an attorney begin a thorough asset research of the particular surveyor.

4)      Upon receipt of the particular surveyors net worth report I would immediately have my Warlord of an attorney file a defamation of character lawsuit for damages in the amount of said net worth plus 50 percent against the particular surveyor.

Would this suck? Absolutely, but it would be unavoidable.

I am really bummed out about this sort of thing occurring. It is causing me to re-think my choice of career. The stuff I have learned since starting this blog is frankly upsetting.

I honestly believe that my friend has done nothing wrong. The only thing I would have done differently is hold off setting anything until the lawyer figures it out.

Last week someone put this on Topica.

 “I don't care what the BTR says; I will conduct my behavior in accordance with the highest level of professional standards possible. This would of course include contacting any person whose work product I do not understand. Not to do so would be removing myself from the level of "professional".

This is a very profound statement and outlook, Thank you sir.

I have always operated outside the politics of surveying and will continue to do so. I am going to have one more post on political stuff and then that’s it. I am finished. I will only speak of business and surveying from here on.

Future Generations

First I want to thank Mr. Fondren for asking the Topica guy to let me back on and to thank the Topica guy to let me back on. Very cool.

Topica guy, I hereby retract the comments I made about you. It was the wrong thing to do and I can never justify the action, I can only move forward.

I have been watching the back and forth about ethics and communications regarding the BTR.

I will tell you that I agree with Fondren and Epperson the most.

Regarding changing the behavior of surveyors, it is my personal opinion that in order to do so we have to impress upon the young future generations of surveyors the principals in which to adhere to.

Let’s face it. A lot of guys 40 + are completely set in their ways and are unwilling to change for any reason and probably will not.

So let’s take a moment and ask why? Why is because a lot of people of my generation and older lack the ability to be open minded and lack forward thinking, they only care about how they think it should be done and to hell with everyone else.

I personally think that by conducting ourselves as a professional and educating the youngsters in 5-10 years things can be formatted in such a way that most will be happy.

If the young people coming into the job see that it takes a certain amount of education on surveying and ethics to become an RLS it will automatically be passed down and therefore accepted as the norm.

Right now none of us have to do anything except pay our firm branch and license renewal in order to keep our license.

I am personally really bad at professional development therefore I am going to get licensed in Idaho so I have to have credit hours every 2 years. I am literally forcing myself into professional progression.

Arizona has an extremely fragmented survey community that operates on a rogue basis. What we need is some unity and cooperation not only for structure at the BTR but to set a standard for pricing, conduct and appearance and a lot more.

Educating the youngsters is the key. Those of us that are forward thinking and open minded need to lead by example and impress that education.

In this new society it our responsibility to make this profession appeal to the youngsters. If I were a young guy just coming into this job and saw how fragmented it is I would run.

Young people want a structured career that will pay them well where they can advance. What are you doing at your company or organization to make it happen?